Aerospace and AZ Days - Davis Monthan - DISCUSSION THREAD

[Harry Morrow]

HI

My first posting on the group, I have recently moved to Tucson from the UK and within the next year will be a permanent resident, I was down near the perimeter yesterday ended up down a road called Tennessee as the police or security were moving everyone on near the golf links road, managed to get a few usable shots, will upload some pictures later but going back to the same spot today, as I am not sure where to go. Tomorrow I am going into the show with my girlfriend and her daughter, just disappointed about the restrictions on carrying a bag, would love to hear from anyone attending the Saturday show day just how this was enforced, just cannot see me carrying my cameras lose.

Enjoy the show.

Thanks for letting me join the group and look forward to seeing many of the fantastic images I have seen so far.

Harry Morrow
www.harrymorrowphotography.com

[John S]

Harry, they will let you bring in a small camera bag, I brought one that could hold my 80-400 and my 300 f/4, plus my extra cards and batteries.

[jslugman]

So how did everyone fare getting what they wanted into the air show? I know a couple of people that weren't allowed to bring in small camera bags and wondering if anyone else had trouble.

[John B.]

So how did everyone fare getting what they wanted into the air show? I know a couple of people that weren't allowed to bring in small camera bags and wondering if anyone else had trouble.

I was one of those people that couldn't get my bag in.  So, I only got my 18-55mm and my 55-200mm in--and no sunscreen.  I chose those lenses because I could stuff them in a pocket.  I was really torqued when the U-2 flew over and I didn't have my 70-300mm. 

[John S]

I had no problem, they had guards at Park Plaza also telling people no larger bags allowed.  I asked before I even got in line.  When I got to the base, when i was 4-5 spots away from the inspection stations another guard said to come over to the "military id line" asked me to open the bag, looked in an said enjoy the show.  My bag is 12x5 and about 6 inches deep.  Couldn't have been nicer about it. 

[JWright]

After the debacle with my media credential leading to my skipping the show altogether, and what's been said here about the bag hassles, I doubt I will think about attending a show here again...  It's not worth a 400 mile trip for that kind of hassle.

[Jay Beckman]

Crying shame you got jerked around like that John.

I almost get the feeling that DM really doesn't want to have an airshow but feels like they have to "compete" with Luke/Yuma so they do it but on their terms.

"Maybe if we have an airshow that's so disagreeable to people the first time that nobody comes back the next, we won't have to have an airshow ever again!"

Also strikes me as an increadible waste of manpower to want to have to "hand hold" media if they want out of the bullpen.  That's just nuts.

Ah Well.  At least arrival day(s) are acceptable photo ops.

[cpasley]

I am glad to say I had a better experience ,once I got up to the line I waited about five minutes ,I had my camera around my neck and the soldier aksed what was in the bag I started to tell him and he goes "just camera stuff" and I replied yes he said enjoy the show and I was on my way he was very nice and efficient ,no complaints (except for the horrible lighting situation

[John S]

To add on to what Jay is saying about not wanting to do an airshow, even though I had no problem getting into the show, I noticed there was definatly a shortage of port-a-potties(p-a-p) and food stands.  I walked around a little during The Patriots and the lines where so long at the food stands, there must have been 30 deep at each one.  The gate where the buses dropped people off had about 10 p-a-p's and 10 more over by the heavies (all I noticed, could have been more around somewhere), I didn't go all the way around and count but I left during the Wings of Blue demo with the c-17 and the p-a-p's by the gate must have had at least 75 people waiting.  I thought it was pretty poor with not many vendors, I thought the lines were so bad I didn't even eat or drink anything the time I was there, and glad I didn't have to go potty.  Just those things itself would make me not want to go back.  I don't know what was southeast of the main gate, so no comment about that.  Oh, and they would not allow chairs in, you had to rent them.  And I took off my big money day at work for it....yuck, never again. 

[Joe Copalman]

My boss and his wife attended as VIPs on Saturday and they both said it seemed very disorganized and that nobody seemed to know what was going on.  

[John B.]

My boss and his wife attended as VIPs on Saturday and they both said it seemed very disorganized and that nobody seemed to know what was going on.  

Unfortunately, I would call that a fair estimation of how the event felt.  I too was left with the same general feeling that DM really had little interest and was just trying to get through the weekend.  As much as I look forward to the event, if they don't have any interest, than they shouldn't bother. 

I haven't been to a Luke AFB Open House, but I suspect it is done well.  I was also most impressed with the Marine Corps Open House at Yuma.  They had no problem sorting out terrorists from people with chairs and camera bags!

[Chris Janes]

I was there both days and had VIP passes and I really didn't see to many issues, but I'm there to watch the show and try not to get wrapped up on stuff out of my control. Event organizers on Saturday apologized to the crowd that they were sorry about the port a potti issue. The company supplying them only delivered half of what DM requested. I did feel there weren't enough vendors but that could be because that was all they could get.

[Joe Copalman]

For what it's worth, the base's email system was out for several days (I think it may have been between one and two weeks by the show date - perhaps James can confirm the length of the outage), so that really may have hampered coordination efforts in the final week prior to the show.  Some of the inefficiency may also have been related to frustration - you've got commanders and shop heads with jobs to do, instructors and students with missions to fly (they lost two flying days that week), and all of that was already impacted by their servers being down.  Losing two days worth of work (and a weekend) to support an airshow they did not receive adequate coordination instructions on most likely took it's toll.

[cpasley]

Come on people keep in mind we (or I would hope) are there for one thing ,to see some awesome planes doing what they do best and the flying was spectacular ,I walked around the show with the biggest smile on my face ,I was all giddy my friend had to tell me to calm down I mean walking around and seeing planes like the B-52 ,A-1 Skyraider ,F-22 ,F-106 and so on I failed to count how many shitters there were cause that was the last thing on my mind plus I am cheap so me and my bud ate a big breakfast before hand to avoid paying $6 for a hambuger ,albeit I have been attending airshows all over the southwest for something like 25 years (man im old ,lol) and have come to expect the worst but again for whats its worth compared to certain shows I have attended in the past I thought this was a pretty good one and I will definitely be back in two years!

[BillOz]

I can't believe how everyone these days think that Airshows should be operated like you paid $5000 per person to go to the Superbowl, and sit in the owners box.

I have been to over 15 Airshows in the last 5 years, and at least 40 in the last 30 years.  There have been less than positive things happen, but nothing to really whine about.

Points to ponder.

Most Airshows are free, so the organizers have limited funds to spend, to make the show a pleasant experience.
Sure most shows are at military bases, so it is your tax dollars being spent, but there is still a limit to spending, and limited number of people who spend all year organizing the event.  Then when the airshow happens, they have a few minutes to train the supporting crew to deal with all the peoples issues.  And these soldiers are working, not getting to enjoy the show with their family, so they may be a little less than enthusiastic dealing with some whiner.

The Airshows rely on vendors mostly.  If a Porta John vendor only delivers half his requested units, there's no running down to Walmart to quickly pick up more.  It is inconvienent, but not a national security issue.
If the Airshow was only able to secure a limited number of food vendors, again it is only an inconvienence.  Most food is also vended by the squadrons on the base, trying to make a few extra bucks for squadron parties, events, charities, etc.  I've been to some big shows, Nellis 6-8 times, Luke, 8-10 times, Williams, 5-8 times, Oshkosh 2 times, Edwards 1 time, Reno 2 times, and every one of these events had times when the food vendors were backed up with 30-50 people per line.  This is usually when the show activity is at a lull.  Is food your main reason to go to the Airshow.  I expect not.  Get in line during one of the acts you are not real interested in, and watch it while in line.  The only difference in being in line and not being in line, is eventually you will get some food, if you are in line.  Either way, you are standing around, waiting for something good to happen.  But being in a line of 50 people seems to make it less desirable.

The security issue at the gate.  This is always a randomly applied procedure.  Some times the security adheres to the letter of the "law" when they are told no chairs, no bags, no coolers, etc.  If you know the limits, then don't complain when you aren't allowed to get something in that was on the do not bring list.  Most places will cut you some slack if you can show you have a need for it.   I'd say the big issue here is the soldiers running security at the gates are given 5 minutes of instruction, the morning of the event, and the list of what is not allowed, and some do not feel they have authority to deviate.  After all, these soldiers are trained to do exactly what they are commanded, and sometimes that gets in the way of other peoples logic, but do we want them questioning orders on the battlefield.  I don't like it either, not knowing what I can bring in one time and not the next, but it's a small price to pay.  If you have 40 lbs. worth of camera gear, then get a media pass or talk to the event organizer about getting it in the gate.  Just because we don't look like terrorists and we're American citizens doesn't mean the security can bend their orders.  Unfortunately these days, security is always used as the excuse, but they don't deal with such large crowds often enough to have a better process.

I went to Luke last year and had no problems at all.  My ex-boss went and he vowed never to go back, even though he is an aviation nut.  But he is a spoiled whiner these days.  Everyone seems to think they are owed a hassle free existence.  Well airshows attract 10's to 100's of thousands of people, and everyone wants to be catered to and have it operated their way.  It can be hassle free, you just can't think that it has to be your way.  Just follow the simple rules and everything will go fine.  As I said, the base can't train every soldier who will be dealing with the public to handle every little issue.  Put yourself in their place, and try to deal with 100,000 different issues in a day.

Sure some things will seem ridiculous, like if media had to stay in a certain area during the airshow.  I had that happen at Nellis, but only during the Friday Media/Family Practice day.  I didn't like it, but I wouldn't declare I'm never going back.

I go to the airshows to see the aviation activity, and I expect to be a little inconvienced for some issues, but in reality, those inconvienences don't bother me much.  The shows aren't just for me, they are for thousands of people.

Bottom Line.  If these little things keep you from going to or back to an airshow, then you really don't want to be there anyway.  Stay home and cut the grass, means less of a crowd for others to deal with.   Plus then we don't all have to spend time reading all this worthless diatribe, instead of viewing pictures of aircraft.

Now before you get all defensive in replying, consider how inconvienenced were you really, compared to the other 100,000 people.   If the Airshow did such a bad job, maybe you can volunteer next time, and help them understand how to do a better job.    Just be glad you got to go to an airshow.

Thank you, and have a pleasant tomorrow, photographing airplanes.