CNN: #Avgeeks: The new warriors on terror

[Rob Silliman]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/04/travel/plane-spotters-versus-terrorists/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[Paul Dumm]

While spotting, they must carry their police-issued ID cards with them and wear their official orange vests. They must log their spotting time and activity on the official ORD Airport Watch website.

This is the part that scares me, your telling me I have to belong to this group
just to go out and photograph aircraft??

[Joe Copalman]

As far as I understand, that is the case in Chicago with O'Hare.  My understanding there is that the law enforcement environment at ORD was fairly hostile to photographers, so these guys decided to be proactive about it.  Good initiative on their part, but it would have been unnecessary had law enforcement not been as aggressive as they were.  As the article states, there are spots around O'Hare that are only open to uniformed Airport Watch members for photography, which was one of my major concerns when the PHX Airport Watch started up here.

PHX is a different case.  Authorities at PHX have been fairly - I'm not even sure permissive is the right word, since it implies they are actively permitting us to take photos there.  They've been very hands-off, and I only know of a handful of incidents in which photographers were hassled out there.  With that being the case, I think there was far less of a need for some outreach with law enforcement, but honestly, most of my concerns haven't come to fruition.  The PHX Airport Watch has been fairly low-impact, and I don't know of a single spot that we can't shoot from that isn't also off-limits to them.  Matt and Felipe are both Airport Watch members, so maybe they can elaborate.

To their credit, the PHX Airport Watch guys have worked to the benefit of all of us in that they got Phoenix PD on-record as to where photographers can and can't shoot from at PHX (the only outside-the-fence area that is off-limits is in the vicinity of the fuel farm).  So that's good, and I appreciate their work in that regard.  But again, that's ultimately not something that demanded any formal relationship to get. 

They do get a little ridiculous in the article talking about the MANPADS threat.  If I ever see someone with a shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile near an airport, you can bet I'm calling the cops on them AND their unicorn. 

[Bubak]

Welcome to USA 2013.....

[Paul Dumm]

Yes, we're luckily out here, I know of a time when Jeff and I were shooting on top of T-4 and lost count after 20 of how many time Phoenix PD bike officer whent past. As long as we, all who photograph out there use our heads it hopefully never come to what ORD has.

[Chris V]

ORD was always crappy to try and shoot at between security on private property or police there really isn't a decent place to shoot from. Nothing like PHX is. Granted the I miss weekend internationals at ORD but LAX is close enough and so much better. I don't know what ORD is like now as when we moved they where in the middle of the big expansion.

[Joe Copalman]

There are some good shots coming out of ORD, but I think some of the spots are only kosher if you're a member of the watch group.  That's precisely the kind of scenario aviation photographers should be working to avoid, rather than normalize.

[Matt Ottosen]

There is no photography benefit to being a member of the PHX Airport Watch program.  PHX Airport Watch is setup like neighborhood block watch, and you actually have to go to get certified through the Phoenix PD block watch program.  As a member it is our job to log the time we spend out at Sky Harbor and to report suspicious activity.

While I was skeptical and worried about PHX Airport Watch at first, Jason Bong has actually done a very good job with it.  Not only does this program benefit the airport, but I think it has also educated the airport (Ops, PD, and TSA) about aviation photography and the fact that we are not a threat.

[Joe Copalman]

Not only does this program benefit the airport, but I think it has also educated the airport (Ops, PD, and TSA) about aviation photography and the fact that we are not a threat.

I guess this is where my skepticism persists, as us being out there in the first place benefits the airport with no certification, and I never really got the impression that we were every really seen as a threat, at least not from an organizational perspective.

That's one thing the article seemed to miss.  They mention the deterrent effect that a group of photographers like the ORD Airport Watch can have on a potential criminal from carry out criminal activity within view of them, but didn't mention that you don't need an established airport watch to get this same effect. 

[FelipeG]

graphers like the ORD Airport Watch can have on a potential criminal from carry out criminal activity within view of them, but didn't mention that you don't need an established airport watch to get this same effect. 

You don't, but you'd be surprised at how effective a hi-viz vest and radio is at making you look more official. But yes, just the fact that you have people taking photos can be enough to deter crime.

There are some good shots coming out of ORD, but I think some of the spots are only kosher if you're a member of the watch group.

What I have never known is if members are allowed to "escort" people there. I believe they are allowed to do so at YYZ or YOW, at least from what I've heard.

I definitely don't think it should be the norm that you have to be a member of a group to be able to take photos, simply because then it disqualifies non-locals from being there, or people who just want to try a new airport. IAH has a policy that is more closed than PHX, but much more open than ORD, you just call the airport PD dispatch in advance or as you're getting there and let them know you plan on being there, they will ask a few questions (name, phone, what are you driving or wearing, what time you plan on leaving, where you will be), there is a list of approved and non-approved spots, but I believe that all the parking garages are approved (I usually go to the D/E and A/B garages).

We did have a string of "incidents" back in December involving private security right around Christmas week, and one of those incidents (which involved a European spotter who got belligerent) made it all the way to the ops department. Ops called Jason to ask if he knew anything about that and he informed them of the encounters that me and Billy had with private sec (both involving the same lady), and they said they were going to have a meeting with all the private security contractors to let them know that photography wasn't prohibited. I believe the lady did call PD on me (given that they showed up like 5 minutes after she left), and they said it was ok to be there, and that she didn't know the law. I didn't even mention Airport Watch because I forgot my badge during a last minute vehicle change (Murphy's law at its best).

The Airport Watch certification/training class was the same as the neighborhood patrol class (since we're still technically part of the neighborhood patrol program) with an extra bit presented by the airport PD authorities regarding airport specific things. And we got an emergency phone number that goes straight to the Airport PD or Aviation Dept, instead of having to go through a more general dispatch center or switchboard.

[Joe Copalman]

I definitely don't think it should be the norm that you have to be a member of a group to be able to take photos, simply because then it disqualifies non-locals from being there, or people who just want to try a new airport. IAH has a policy that is more closed than PHX, but much more open than ORD, you just call the airport PD dispatch in advance or as you're getting there and let them know you plan on being there, they will ask a few questions (name, phone, what are you driving or wearing, what time you plan on leaving, where you will be), there is a list of approved and non-approved spots, but I believe that all the parking garages are approved (I usually go to the D/E and A/B garages).

Oh, I never got the impression that PHX or any other airport watch was set up with the intent of making it so you absolutely have to be a member of the group to take photos at an airport.  My concern was that the people on the ops and the law enforcement side might take that idea and run further than intended with it.

I've shot at IAH before and it's not a bad set-up.  Not ideal, but very easy to comply with.   

[FelipeG]

I don't think that there any groups on this hemisphere who have even thought about trying to get exclusive access. I think there is an airport in India where the local group does have the exclusive rights and any non members have to be with a member, or something along those lines, I remember some uproar over that a while back. I can definitely see where it could spiral out of control, but fortunately it hasn't really happened yet.

I don't know if IAH now has information on their website about it, but the first time I thought about spotting there on a layover I sent an email to one of the contacts listed there, they forwarded it internally and replied back to me with the information, so at least they're very open about it. I've never had TSA/security/police talk to me there. I don't know if they rarely bother you if you've checked in or what. I have heard that people who don't check in do get hassled, but not necessarily kicked out. But it's certainly better than the level of closedness that ORD has, especially since I'm sure that many of us who shoot at IAH are simply catching a connection there and want to spend a couple of hours in the nice weather.

[Matt Ottosen]

I guess this is where my skepticism persists, as us being out there in the first place benefits the airport with no certification, and I never really got the impression that we were every really seen as a threat, at least not from an organizational perspective.

That's one thing the article seemed to miss.  They mention the deterrent effect that a group of photographers like the ORD Airport Watch can have on a potential criminal from carry out criminal activity within view of them, but didn't mention that you don't need an established airport watch to get this same effect. 

You're exactly right, there never was a need for the PHX Airport Watch.  The photography groups do the same exact job without the creation of a new organization, especially since Sky Harbor already had their SOAR program in place.  I don't know, but maybe some people needed the PHX Airport Watch to motivate them into reporting suspicious activity, maybe they just needed a group to belong to, or maybe they wanted the cool, laminated badge and t-shirt.  But, with that being said, I still think Jason Bong has done a good job with this unnecessary program.  He even has some good ideas to have the group cleanup trash in common spotting/photography locations.  I do believe that he is doing his best to support Sky Harbor.

The Airport Watch certification/training class was the same as the neighborhood patrol class (since we're still technically part of the neighborhood patrol program) with an extra bit presented by the airport PD authorities regarding airport specific things. And we got an emergency phone number that goes straight to the Airport PD or Aviation Dept, instead of having to go through a more general dispatch center or switchboard.

I tried to schedule the Sky Harbor PD training, but my emails never were returned.

[Joe Copalman]

You're exactly right, there never was a need for the PHX Airport Watch.  The photography groups do the same exact job without the creation of a new organization, especially since Sky Harbor already had their SOAR program in place. 

I don't even think you need photography groups for this to happen.  I mean, having some type of organization to put information out to local shooters is great, but honestly, this is pretty much common sense.  If you see a knucklehead trying to hop a fence onto the active part of an airfield or some yahoo point a gun or a laser at aircraft, you're going to call the cops. 

What's interesting is that some of the most articulate comments on that CNN article are from spotters who are opposed to the idea of watch groups for the same reasons that have been spelled out in this thread.  And when you really think about it, it wasn't the photographers at O'Hare who needed to be trained by law enforcement, but rather law enforcement who needed to be trained to understand that photographers are not a threat.

[redsox223]

If only more airports could be like PHX in terms of Law Enforcement interactions. Last week I was only up on Terminal 4 for an hour. I had an officer come up to me, ask what I was doing and after a few questions told me to have fun. An airport watch group is more of police to get to know spotters and I am trying to start a process in Boston where the many different policing organizations can make spotting feel like an American Gladiators episode.