Marines buying remaining British Harriers

[Chris Kennedy]

http://defense-update.com/20111113_u-s-marine-corps-negotiates-buying-decommissioned-british-harriers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DefenseUpdate+%28Defense+Update%29

[Joe Copalman]

Awesome news, unless you are pulling for the F-35B.

[Paul Dumm]

Sounds like there just, parts-is-parts  worth more as parts then flying.

[Matt Ottosen]

From Combat Aircraft Magazine, posted on Facebook:

UK MoD has confirmed that 72 Harrier GR9s have been sold to the US Marine Corps for.....$180m! Now that's a deal guys. $2.5m a copy.

[BillOz]

But is there any warranty time remaining?

These can't be for parts I wouldn't think.  These are UK construction, so the parts aren't likely exactly the same.

[Joe Copalman]

Actually, there's significant commonality between the AV-8B and the GR.7/GR.9.  They're more or less the same airframe, with the primary differences being mission-related stuff like the ECM suite and such.

[Matt Ottosen]

From the Navy Times:

The Corps is planning on phasing out its Harriers by 2025, when replacement by F-35B Joint Strike Fighters should be complete.

Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier, however, said he expects the British Harriers to be used initially to replace two-seat Marine F-18D Hornet fighters now operated in the night attack role.

"The F-18Ds are more worn out than the Harriers," Nordeen said. "Most of the conversions [of ex-British aircraft] early on will be to replace 18Ds and not Harriers." He noted the first Marine F-35B squadron already is slated to replace an F-18D unit.

[Joe Copalman]

So the Brits' loss of a core capability is going to end up being a loss of a core capability for the Marines as well.  Just great.  Those Ds need to be replaced with Rhinos. 

[cpasley]

I agree Joe, since the superbug is readily available I think the marines could make good use out of it, I also had no idea that the "D" model Hornets were in that bad of shape and worse than the Harriers but hey im all for using Btitish equip escpecially if not being just parted out

[Chris Kennedy]

Most of the later stories about this sale say that these aircraft will not be flown, just used for parts.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/11/defense-us-marines-wont-fly-harriers-111711/

Presumably they will end up at AMARG. I wonder how they will get there.

[Matt Ottosen]

I guess it all depends on who Lon Nordeen is talking to and what they are talking about.

As I already posted, From the Navy Times:

The Corps is planning on phasing out its Harriers by 2025, when replacement by F-35B Joint Strike Fighters should be complete.

Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier, however, said he expects the British Harriers to be used initially to replace two-seat Marine F-18D Hornet fighters now operated in the night attack role.

"The F-18Ds are more worn out than the Harriers," Nordeen said. "Most of the conversions [of ex-British aircraft] early on will be to replace 18Ds and not Harriers." He noted the first Marine F-35B squadron already is slated to replace an F-18D unit.

From the Marine Times:

"All the planes have to fit together," Lon Nordeen, a Harrier expert and author of several books about the aircraft, pointed out.

"There are significant differences between Royal Air Force GR Mark 9s and Marine AV-8Bs, which would be a challenge to overcome," Nordeen added. "However, the engines and spare parts would be very valuable for long-term sustainment of the Marine Corps Harrier fleet."

[Joe Copalman]

I'm sure there's a lot of anger over this deal, as it really is a blow against the F-35B.  Might explain the all the off-the-record back-and-forth on whether they're going to fly them.  It'll be interesting to see what the official word is once we take possession of the aircraft.

There are definitely ways to incorporate the RAF birds in the Corps.  One is to equip entire squadrons with either the USMC or the British types, which frees up additional copies of both types to provide spares to keep both fleets flying.  Another is to incorporate them into existing AV-8B squadrons, with the AV-8s being used for boat detachments and the GR.9s being land-based.  You could even divide them up along East Coast/West Coast lines, with Yuma and Cherry Point becoming exclusive operators of either AV-8s or GR.9s.  Getting them into the fleet means ALL their parts remain useful, not just those core components they have in common with the AV-8s.

[Scott Youmans]

I would imagine that if they do fly them they'll need to go through what would amount to a depot level overhaul to introduce all or most of the US specific sub-systems and upgrades installed on our other Harriers.  Usually a lot of wiring harnesses involved and mods to equipment bays, cockpit/instrument panel, etc.  Certainly within the realm of possibility and "relatively" cheap.  As a fan of the Harrier I'd like to see more flying but not at the cost of the F-35B.  I'm sure they'll take my feelings into consideration.  In any case it will be interesting to see what happens.